Fuji-class Bridge: Navigation?

[Hollander]

A question regarding the stations on the Fuji-class Bridge.

Which of the Bridge stations (if any?) performs Navigation duties? That is, is there a seat on this bridge for a Star Army Navigator? Or would Navigators perform their duties from the Deck 2 Monitoring Room or something?

Separately, if a decision is made on this, I'd like to ask permission to update the Bridge wiki page accordingly, unless someone else elects to do so.

Thanks!

 

[raz]

Star Army Navigators (helmsman) control the ship from its pilot station.

The article does not need updating because it already describes that accurately and clearly.

• Pilot: The helmsmen of the bridge sits in the pilot's seat to the captain's port-side.

 

[Hollander]

If the term 'Helmsmen' is meant to refer to a particular occupation, then that explains where my uncertainty came from!

The Bridge page's Pilot seat does indeed refer to 'The helmsmen', but the word 'Helmsman' doesn't appear in the Star Army Navigator occupation page in singular or plural form. It doesn't appear on the Pilot page or the Operator page either. A search of the term on the wiki, in general, doesn't immediately show me what occupation the Helmsman is, nor what it could be (whether Operator, Navigator, or Pilot). If this role isn't defined in the wiki somewhere, or on the Fuji Bridge page, then I'd contend that the question of "What Star Army occupation is the helmsman?" is relevant. If Helmsman is defined somewhere, I may just be missing it.

Now one could say "Well, the word helmsman has a general definition, just infer from context", but I believe a Helmsman is someone who "steers a ship". Does that mean a Pilot? A Navigator? An Operator? We're back to my original question of where the Navigator sits, I would say!

If that Pilot seat description could be updated to specify which occupations Helmsman refers to, then I feel like this would resolve the issue I see. Alternately, we could update the occupations to refer to the term Helmsman?

Welcoming thoughts on this!

 

[raz]

A Star Army pilot controls fighters and shuttles.

A Star Army Navigator pilots warships/starships and is their large vessel's primary driver. They are also licensed and qualified pilots in the same way a Star Army pilot is.

A Star Army Starship Operator can pilot warships with the assistance of autopiloting systems, but usually isn't a warship's primary driver.

This is just a matter of being familiar with the setting. Nothing really needs to be updated imo.

 

[Ametheliana]

Star Army Navigator is a newer term created after the Fuji-class bridge was made. I updated the navigator page to include they'resometimes called helmsman or starship pilots.

 

[Hollander]

Star Army Navigator is a newer term created after the Fuji-class bridge was made. I updated the navigator page to include they'resometimes called helmsman or starship pilots.

Thanks Ame! I feel like that resolves my question, so this could be marked as Solved. Much appreciated!

 

[Wes]

To answer the original question, there's simply no designated space on the Fuji-class bridge for a Star Army Navigator, and they would have to be place in whatever station is open/available if we want them to work on the bridge.

Star Army Navigators are often certified starship pilots, but using them to pilot the ship is like using a professional cartographer to drive an 18-wheeler. Their job is to plot a course for the ship, not to actually do the driving. Typically a ship, if the Star Army can supply a navigator at all (they're hard to train), will have only one navigator who works on the main shift but multiple pilots who must continuously man the bridge. Making a navigator pilot the ship can interfere with their work because it means having to multi-task. But on small ships like the Fuji-class sometimes you have to work with the crew you have.

On the Resurgence, Benna was piloting the ship and Kalena manned the weapons and sensors but Benna got her own ship command so Gabriela is filling in as pilot. In the Eucharis, Hanako often did the piloting herself because she enjoyed it.

 

[Ametheliana]

That's interesting, I certainly didn't realize their implementation was so distinct until this discussion. I think what I'm gathering and hoping to know as an offshoot of this is that pilot is erroneous, but helmsman is fine to call a navigator? Sorry if it's getting off track a bit!

 

[Wes]

I recommend calling someone the navigator if they're specifically in charge of the ship's navigation plans. Gray panels. Maybe have a chart room or stellar cartography room somewhere on the ship, which is typically near the bridge. See: Navigator - Wikipedia

Pilot = Someone who flies ships, shuttles, fighters, aircraft, etc. Blue panels. But we've historically called starship operators ship pilots as well.

Helmsman = Stationed at the ship's helm controls (e.g. steers the ship). Gray panels. A typical sub-type of bridge bunny. See: Helmsman - Wikipedia

All this is further complicated by the widespread use of computers for navigation and helm control as well.

 

[raz]

This seems like a convergence of multiple issues.

To again and firstly address the topic’s question: A Fuji-class’ navigator will most often do their work from the pilot’s station. That station has all of the navigational controls assigned to its volumetric displays in default, and according to the navigator occupation page all navigators must: “become flight-certified at starship piloting school.” I’ll stand by my first comments that nothing needs to be updated (nor needed to be) because all of the information is there on the wiki when you read the relevant pages and synthesize that information.

Beyond that, the confusion when it comes to navigators as an occupation vis-a-vis Wes’ vision seems to need correction. Of the characters listed in struct, two helmsman seem to have become navigators via the accelerated officer program (around when the navigator occupation was made a sub-code of 09 starship operator) and simply had their players upgrade the characters to the navigator occupation when they were likely better suited for service as standard starship operators. Another scout ship has two navigators, who both perform piloting duties according to the interest check, which is incompatible with what Wes has explained about the navigator occupation. And the last two, including Gabriela on the Resurgence, either have a character sheet emphasis on piloting or in Gabby’s case do indeed pilot their ship.

To further complicate matters, the pilot occupation (blue panel) generally does not serve at the helm of starships and is focused toward small craft according to its wiki page.

There’s this false mismatch of what Wes says navigators do and what most people with navigator characters do. I think the answer is simply being more diligent during character approvals. All of this information might already converge on the wiki but you’ll still get people who “read the sourcebook” and get things wrong without a GM or FM intervening, which is what approvals are supposed to be for rather than a rubber stamp.

 

[Yuuki]

Of the two people who pilot the Yukika II that don't sit in the command chair, one is a Starship Operator for second shift and the other is a Pilot on first shift (they fly "some small starships" and a Nozomi II, even a bit bigger than a Noz I is still quite small). There is a navigator for each shift. Astrogation skills are very important in an uncharted, unexplored frontier with no navigation infrastructure.

Here is an example of the RP of the Navigator being used, albeit for in-system sublight maneuver the computer probably could have handled, but this is first launch of a green crew so they're doing shakedown and that's why both shifts are on the bridge at the same time. The Cadet mentioned is the Pilot sitting at the Tactical station, and is to whom Tachiko was talking when she said "Helm":

"Tak~ ahem," Tachiko cleared her throat softly before continuing, "Helm, when at safe distance from station, bring plasma engines to full sublight cruise, and take us into a manual insert– high prograde equatorial parking orbit of Sharie II, circularized. Nav One, get the Cadet the numbers for manual burn, Nav Two, find plasma sublight transfer for Sharie III gravity-assist encounter at full cruise to get us to the FTL radius in the outer gravity well."

<Other Stuff>

"Oh! Um... ah, yes, plasma sublight transfer to Sharie III, grav assist, full cruise," confirmed Yuki. Her eyes widened, ears flattening a bit. So enrapt had she been at following what everyone else was doing that she'd neglected her own job. After all, a much wiser and more experienced joto heisho had pointed out to her that what separated a good navigator from an okay navigator was anticipating the captain's needs and having the most likely needed courses ready so that she wouldn't have to wait.

She might have forgotten to do that.

Her normally pale face flushed. Luckily, it was a relatively easy course to plot, in normal space for the whole length, something she should be able to do in her sleep. It was, though, the first real duty she'd gotten to do for her new ship, and her fingers were far from steady as she started working out the calculations.

 

[raz]

Pilot on first shift (they fly "some small starships" and a Nozomi II, even a bit bigger than a Noz I is still quite small).

We're sort of getting into the weeds right now but blue paneled pilots generally don't fly warships at all. I've been directly told this by the FM in the past. The pilot occupation page even explicitly says "Members of the Pilot's occupation fall into 2 main roles: Fighter Pilot, and Bomber Pilot." Warship bridges are almost always limited to officer crew while the pilot occupation is not, which is why the starship operator line of occupations (09, including 09A navigator) were mandated to have officer ranks as of YE 43.

I believe "some small starships" refers to things like cargo ships such as Origin's Courier 2B, because blue paneled pilots have been responsible for driving cargo ships in the past. The obsolete Odori freighter makes reference to this when it talks about "enlisted freighter pilots." The responsibility of flying a small craft or cargo ship can be trusted to a pilot, whereas the piloting of a warship is invested in starship operators. That's not to say a former blue paneled pilot cannot make the jump to helm, and many likely do.

My previous post's general point is that what a navigator does in actual play is very different to what Wes described above, which is: "Typically a ship, if the Star Army can supply a navigator at all (they're hard to train), will have only one navigator who works on the main shift but multiple [starship operator] pilots who must continuously man the bridge."

Bringing it back around to the matter of Fuji-class ships so that we stay directly on-topic, which are themselves "expeditionary" gunships and almost always operate alone (when they don't they're being utilized inappropriately out-of-role by their fleet), they'll have a navigator who performs their astrogation charting from the pilot's station during their shift.