Can SOFT teams still be formed by Star Army Command?

[raz]

Hello!

I was wondering if legacy Special Operations Fire Teams still exist under the direct control of Star Army Command.

The way things used to work is that Star Army Command (Yui) and SAINT both organized SOFTs with SAINT making theirs up of Operatives while SAC were standard infantry commando types. Now things seem to be different with SAINT having its own path (SIFTs) and SOFTs being reduced solely to a designation that field-grade officers give to existing personnel.

Well I've got an NPC unit that was a Star Army Command SOFT before the SASO change (team leader Eikan Taeko-heisho pictured right). Was thinking about wikifying this team for both posterity and future use in roleplay, and so I'm asking if they can still exist in a legacy format under the direct command of SAC/Yui's chain-of-command without being "registered" to SASO as the SOFT page now describes.

You can see in the image that the team wears infantry cornflower blue with a Rikugun/Uchuugun lineage and I'd like to keep them that way rather than converting them to be a SIFT. While I love SAINT, it's still nice to play characters who do not wear black panels.

As one of the few people to have actually used SOFTs (both SAINT and standard Star Army Command), it feels easier to have my teams operate in the way they were created to operate rather trying to reconcile a change that doesn't make sense to them in-character.

 

[HarperMadi]

I mean, I was under the impression that SOFT still existed as a member of the SASO umbrella. Some times small unit tactics are better, some times you need to send a platoon of CSAR in to go hands across America and pull a SAINT dude out of a bad place.

So yeah. I don't see why SOFT wouldn't still be a thing.

 

[demibear]

I mean Yui can do whatever the Mistress Taisho desires. If she wants a SOFT outside of SASO, no one can deny her will.

 

[raz]

Of course. I'm just wondering if players/GMs can ignore that SASO exists at all and use our existing characters in a more "classic" SOFT way. It's not particularly worthwhile RP to have my non-SAINT SOFTs always grumbling that they went from elite special tasks units under Taisho Yui's department to mooks who are part of an ill-conceived reformation corps that's commanded by a scientist who got fired from being the MP commander because she didn't do a good job.

Yes, Taisho Yui can do what she wants. But I'd like to hear a blanket yes/no answer from an FM (Wes) so that special dispensation doesn't need to be asked for every time someone wants to use a SOFT under Star Army Command rather than SASO.

some times you need to send a platoon of CSAR in to go hands across America and pull a SAINT dude out of a bad place.

Sorry to go off-topic, but it's important to clear this up so readers aren't confused by incorrect information: CSAR would never perform this function because SAINT has its own specialized search-and-rescue units (AEGIS) whose mandate includes extracting Operatives.

 

[Soban]

Can you ignore SASO? Long as it makes a good story, sure. Theese are setting elements for us to use. If I saw a 'legacy' SOFT team running around, I'd probably just think they were a regular one and the exact bureaucratic details aren't relevant to the story.

Should you ignore SASO? Probably not, it's a touch point that allows us to have a shared framework and reference. Ignoring breaks the setting just a teeny-tiny bit, nothing that 'broad strokes' can't cover. But it does break it that tiny bit and it irks the autistic legalistic jerk inside me.

Ultimately, I'm pro telling a good story and if we have to break a few setting elements for it, then fine. Consistentcy is the hobgoblin of small minds. But no more than necessary, and we should be looking for touch points where we can bring the setting together. I think long as we have a net gain in connection overall, we are ahead of the game even if that net positive is made of pluses and minuses.

 

[raz]

I see there was a solution marked on a general "obviously" type statement, but I would still like an official answer from an FM.

As one of the few GMs/players to actually utilize SOFT units and do so more consistently than any other, SASO doesn't add anything helpful to being able to use these pre-existing setting elements. It's nothing more than a layer of unwanted bureaucracy in-character that would introduce inefficiency and an element of politics (SASO is headed by a committee rather than a single commander) that would be doubtlessly unwanted by any character who knows what they're doing.

Yes, Yui does what she wants. That's not really helpful because I already know that. Do I need to go ask for specific orders for my existing Star Army Command SOFT unit so that they remain separate and operate in a "legacy" billet? Or can those of us who actually roleplay and use these setting elements simply bypass the existence of SASO?

 

[Soban]

SASO doesn't add anything helpful to being able to use these pre-existing setting elements. It's nothing more than a layer of unwanted bureaucracy in-character that would introduce inefficiency and an element of politics (SASO is headed by a committee rather than a single commander) that would be doubtlessly unwanted by any character who knows what they're doing.

You are making a LOT of assumptions that are frankly unwarranted about what characters would or would not agree about. SASO is basically totally-not-United-States-Special-Operations-Command. Perhaps you are right, they are an inefficient bureaucracy. On the other hand, their core job of unifying Yamatai's special operations community and sharing information is very useful, which is why many real life militaries have something similar.

Overall, I feel like the Star Army has been centralizing recently, and if so SASO is a good reflection of that. Personally, I have my own thoughts about how the Star Army should be organized. Personally, I would kinda prefer a more anime esq individualized Star Army where each of the main fleets (and sub units) each take different trade offs and techniques and are badass in their own sort of way and crosscutting concerns are handled under the Mistress Taisho. That said, intelligence sharing is an important crosscutting concern that SASO was created for. So six of one, half a dozen of the other. So I kinda think SASO is a good idea.

Here are my own answers to your questions. TLDR: You are asking for permission to do what you have always been free to do.

Do I need to go ask for specific orders for my existing Star Army Command SOFT unit so that they remain separate and operate in a "legacy" billet?

Yes. The Wiki is kinda the default assumption for how the Star Army works, but specific RP (not necessarily even an orders thread) can alter that. Without some bit of RP establishing "hey we are doing our own thing", (could even be a single line) then readers are going to make the default assumptions.

can those of us who actually roleplay and use these setting elements simply bypass the existence of SASO?

Yes. Go do your own thing, completely ignore SASO if you want. All I ask is that you write a good story.

Personally, I kinda view the setting as us all going to the same pot-luck. If you don't like the fried-chicken, you don't have to eat the fried chicken. If you like the look of the dumplings I'm eating, then you can also go up and eat dumplings.

 

[Wes]

Okay, I had selected Demibear's answer as correct but in the interest of clarity:

• Star Army command can still form SOFT teams, and will do so if there's some good reason to. Is there?
• On the OOC side, no one should be making Star Army Command do stuff without my permission (it's run by my character!)
• SOFT teams are normally formed by SASO
• Still not really sure how to use SASO, I kind of prefer to use the fleets for everything.

 

[Soban]

• Still not really sure how to use SASO, I kind of prefer to use the fleets for everything.

The way I see them is that they are a cross-cutting organization like personnel or logistics, just a bit smaller as they are slightly less all-encompassing. They make it so that all of the Special Operations are visible to each other and we don't have a 'flock of wolves' situation or two different special operations running into each other.

 

[demibear]

Intelligence comes in and the proper type of team gets tasked/easier to hold accountable since they aren't SAINT. The main use to players was supposed to be the SAoY version of the Notice of Extra Title Framework, but with special operations. The drama around it and the expulsion of its creator likely put a bad taste in people's mouths when thinking about SASO. But I really should start taking care of it, revised the article to remove a bunch of redlinks.

 

[raz]

Still not really sure how to use SASO, I kind of prefer to use the fleets for everything.

SASO has absolutely zero practical use because it was conceived by people who have zero understanding of how the Star Army functions.

Star Army command can still form SOFT teams, and will do so if there's some good reason to. Is there?

Because the existing Star Army Command SOFT units have real, roleplayed experience. SASO was written by people who did no research and have no understanding of the worldbuilding that makes the Star Army outstanding.

 

[Cowboy]

I've got to disagree with you there Raz. If what you say is true, about SASO having no practical use, then why was it approved in the first place? Obviously the approvers thought it met all the criteria to be added into the settings.

I also think it's unfair to say that the people who created it don't understand the setting. SASO was created by Ethereal, who sadly isn't here to defend his idea.

If SASO is something that people don't think fit in the setting anymore and want to get rid of that's one thing. But to attack it's creator saying he didn't understand the setting and saying it was a dumb idea that never should have been implemented isn't cool.

 

[Charmaylarg Dufrain]

I think SAINT and the like are one of those setting elements people get way too defensive over considering the point of this community. I can understand the work put into it and the passion of it but at the end of the day this is a roleplaying community and the only thing that matters is the writing, and having fun.

Never should it enter a public discussion such statements about other people's creations and where they fit because none of us sans Wes himself decide what fits in this setting. Everything is a tool for RP and an option to give variety to players and game masters and should be seen as a good thing that adds variety and options for everyone involved even if it does the same thing as something else in the same faction.

Please guys, set better examples for new players who want to create and have fun and who see or experience this treatment and realize it is not appropriate.

 

[HarperMadi]

SASO has absolutely zero practical use because it was conceived by people who have zero understanding of how the Star Army functions.

Try running the Green Berets and the Army Rangers without the USSOC. Try coordinating them. Try coordinating them with Navy Seals, Marine Recon, USAF Pararescue, and foreign special forces such as SAS.

Special Operations Command, and by extension, Star Army Special Operations cuts down on that bureaucracy by adding a common command structure and thus shortening the chain, allowing faster response and smoother operation that keeps people alive. If you want to remove SASO, expect a 2000% increase in combat fatalities and 5000% increase in bad intelligence due to details getting lost going up and coming back down. Also expect intelligence leaks and delays. So yes, it's necessary. And your "unnecessary beaurocracy" and "small government" is an extension of you being out of touch with basic military concepts. If you want to improve the skillsets you have, I can recommend a few books.

 

[raz]

Let’s get a few things straight. Namely, the Star Army is a fictional military that doesn’t have any issues with its extremely limited pool of “special forces” running into each other. It is set up as a vertically managed entity and because of the way its chains-of-command work (up through fleets to Yui, back down from Yui to fleets) there is absolutely zero risk for such eventualities happening. There are many real world inspirations that have gone into the Star Army. There are many more that could inspire it, too, but not all of them are appropriate to transplant over with a blind eye to the fictional worldbuilding that makes Star Army great.

Further, it was Wes above who said he didn’t know what to do with SASO. My perspective as essentially the only player/GM who maintains SOFT teams for RP (and has since before SASO) is that the organization is neither helpful for RP nor is it a valuable setting element that betters the Star Army in-character. The organization was ill-conceived and didn’t have much research of established RP put into it. Saying such isn’t rude nor is akin to an attack on its creator, so please do not put more words into my mouth than what I’ve actually said in my posts.

So here we have someone who has consistently utilized SOFT units in RP for years (me) saying SASO doesn’t help the kind of RP I do, get told by a bunch of people who do not use SOFTs that “oh but it’s better to have this thing mismatched to the setting around for amorphous reasons!” I was only following on to Wes’ statement about preferring fleets to SASO with my own statement that things were indeed better for RP without it.

No one uses SASO. It hasn’t received any meaningful RP since it was set up and probably won’t. Pre-SASO SOFT organization was better and allowed players/GMs to actually use SOFT units easily if they desired while keeping them rarefied so that fleet plotships could be the stars of the show. Now we have unnecessary setting bloat that doubly keeps people who use SOFTs from actually using them in the niche and interesting ways they were created for.

 

[Soban]

• SOFT teams are normally formed by SASO

I just noticed this. This is incorrect according to the wiki. Their formed by ship captains and are then registered with SASO. The role of SASO in SOFT teams is fairly minimal. They provide advice about how the team is formed and then provides deconfliction.

 

[Ametheliana]

I think raz wanted to avoid having player characters with long and storied histories changing hands or changing units, that was his main concern from my perspective. All of the sideline banter about what SASO is and isn't I thought I cleared up in RP as SAINT manager, but if anybody has ideas for me then my forum DMs are open and I'd love to talk it out there or in a separate thread that is about SASO. This one is not, it's about predominantly one SOFT unit and what raz can call it in the future. The extra info from Wes has been a boon, though!

We're just kind of talking in circles now and mostly everyone has talked around raz's question save for Wes. Since the answer has been provided, would @Wes mind closing the thread to future replies?

 

[Wes]

I just noticed this. This is incorrect according to the wiki. Their formed by ship captains and are then registered with SASO. The role of SASO in SOFT teams is fairly minimal. They provide advice about how the team is formed and then provides deconfliction.

Okay, we'll go with what the wiki says then.

I think raz wanted to avoid having player characters with long and storied histories changing hands or changing units, that was his main concern from my perspective. All of the sideline banter about what SASO is and isn't I thought I cleared up in RP as SAINT manager, but if anybody has ideas for me then my forum DMs are open and I'd love to talk it out there or in a separate thread that is about SASO. This one is not, it's about predominantly one SOFT unit and what raz can call it in the future. The extra info from Wes has been a boon, though!

We're just kind of talking in circles now and mostly everyone has talked around raz's question save for Wes. Since the answer has been provided, would @Wes mind closing the thread to future replies?

Okay.