Jack Pine
Well-Known Member
- Submission URL
- https://stararmy.com/wiki/doku.php?id=wip:species:hessarians
- Submission Faction(s)
- None (nebulas, etc.)
- Submission Terms
- I agree
Resubmitted for rascal
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Rejected Submission Hessarians
- Thread starter Jack Pine
- Start date
- Status
Every tactic listed can't be used for every engagement and again doesn't go back to the player portion I brought. Rascaldees lets do a comparative and add these to a existing plot and the player and npc base being used for said plot mission. Going to use the current YSS kaiyo II plot as a example because this is a fine example of some normal plots on Sarp.
We have roughly about 8 personal all said and total on a station to eliminate a few hostiles and destroy some facilities plus liberate the civilians from tryants ( Pretty much this has been a war going on for years). Each member has a mindy with a few attachments mostly stealth and rifles. Now a mindy can do some awesome things but its still a suit, Now I put one of these creature heck lets say 2 for good measure against one of these fire teams under 100 meters. Now they might be able to kill one of these 2 story creatures but both nope don't see that happening and what we have is 4 player characters dead who might of been on this site and there main characters for years.
Now lets be honest can anything of happened to those characters sure, perma death happens and I know going on the wiki I know there a few player characters have died. This is just a example of adding this species ruining a plot cause we will have those missions.
Now looking at other things as is you can add on armor to this creature, you can be a player character of this species and you have a 2 story walking tank. You can give this thing a big cannon and that is going to mess up some ones day.
Tactics wise those listed above can't be used, or can they be sustained not only based on mission parameters but also lcoal assets. A squad would not be able to keep sustained fire using the heavy ordnance the squad is going to carry, we are talking maybe some atgms, small portable rockets and grenades. We also add in a city defense mission, I know the Star Army is not going to call in danger close orbital bombardment on there own troops in a city unless its so dire. Also you don't want to use tanks in a urban environment if you can help it.
This thing has to be scaled down or some way give it massive limitations, Jack had a great point about limiting its reproductive abilities since some lizards can have up to 20 eggs in a batch and some laying several batchs at a time. We can only guess because in your species article there is nothing about there life cycle and since the wiki article has to tell details about them instead of a unknown we can only guess.
Suggestions would be limit the size of these creatures, remove some the redundant organs, add in the life cycle so maybe we can see how quickly these things breed and give a life expedience . Cause right now I know for a fact if this creature was in a plot that I was in I know sooner then later despite all the tactics in the world I know my character is going to die and there is not much I can do about it.
club24
Everything Is Magical
Ignorance of the rules is no excuse to stop listening, especially considering I have presented you with options and constructive feedback.
And while I don’t mean any disrespect to wes in saying this, the ntse exists because one person can’t always be 100% correct in everything.
My intention isn’t to sandbag you as I previously stated, I’m simply trying to ensure standards are upheld.
And while I don’t mean any disrespect to wes in saying this, the ntse exists because one person can’t always be 100% correct in everything.
My intention isn’t to sandbag you as I previously stated, I’m simply trying to ensure standards are upheld.
Charmaylarg Dufrain
🎖️ Game Master
Wes is the site manager and the final say, ye. But hes not infallible. Hes one set of opinions and mindset just like the rest of us. That's why there are rules like allowing the community to raise concerns in these threads to get as much POV as possible.
Wes has and has used the power in the past to force submissions through, But ultimately leaves things to the hands of the reviewers.
Its not all about plot hooks and *Theres already this, So I want this/that.*.
Wes has and has used the power in the past to force submissions through, But ultimately leaves things to the hands of the reviewers.
Its not all about plot hooks and *Theres already this, So I want this/that.*.
Jack Pine
Well-Known Member
Kaiyo does indeed face..interesting scenarios, but I would like to point out that for the most part, tactics take a back seat in that plot. A Mindy has a array of weapons that can take care of tanks, as PA is something originally designed and created to fight tanks. It's not the best example in my opinion as most of the weapons could actually cut these guys down pretty easily. Anything aether would be a quick death for a hessarian.
4 people dead is what happens when you have players run their own thing solo when it comes to combat. I.e. no tactics used, or even unit cohesion. A better plot to use as example would be the Sakura II which does employ such, and does impose more realistic scenarios. The grade of tech your trying to compare, or are referencing in effectiveness, would be more along the lines of what the NDC uses. And even then we have several weapons that if used correctly could give said race a very bad day. Do not mistake me saying there is no risk, as there greatly still is. But in a setting where PA for the majority has become a mainstay and vehicles along with infantry take a backseat. It sadly greatly lessens threats such as this.
4 people dead is what happens when you have players run their own thing solo when it comes to combat. I.e. no tactics used, or even unit cohesion. A better plot to use as example would be the Sakura II which does employ such, and does impose more realistic scenarios. The grade of tech your trying to compare, or are referencing in effectiveness, would be more along the lines of what the NDC uses. And even then we have several weapons that if used correctly could give said race a very bad day. Do not mistake me saying there is no risk, as there greatly still is. But in a setting where PA for the majority has become a mainstay and vehicles along with infantry take a backseat. It sadly greatly lessens threats such as this.
Rascaldees
Banned Member
Now take that same scenario and make it the same team against 1,000 UCS soldiers. Because of how things work in this setting they literally cannot do damage to power armor. I personally think that's a load of crap but sure.
And what Jack said still stands. They are just as much of a threat to anyone as others are to them.
Not only that but the UCS doesn't field power armor regularly. This puts them at an extreme disadvantage to any faction other than backwater ones.
The bottom line is still this: I am NOT modifying them without NTSE specifically stating they need modifications. There are too many subversive people here for me to trust any of your opinions as genuine.
Charmaylarg Dufrain
🎖️ Game Master
nobody is genuinely trying to sandbag you, rascaldees. There is no plot or agenda against you or your faction this is simply how things are done here.
and nobody here has the power to actually make you change these things or is ordering you to. Its simple our right as the community to raise concern.
and nobody here has the power to actually make you change these things or is ordering you to. Its simple our right as the community to raise concern.
Rascaldees
Banned Member
I am not the only person that thinks the way that I do and yes there is proof of this. So no, I won't be modifying them unless NTSE says to do it.
IQ
Well-Known Member
What side I pick or what I do, I'm seeing a lot of vague premises here, whether it's intentional or not, remains to be seen. Though that aside, what disturbs me most is your jabs at the entire community as a whole when SARP is more than just Yamatai.
There are people such as myself who simply don't give two shits about you or your faction. To insult the majority of us by mentioning that symbolism is a dead art around here, is a bad thing.
And that pushes in what I wanted to get at. You're extremely disrespectful to others as of late. I don't agree with the behaviour some have portrayed towards you, but not everyone has done so.
You should reconsider your behaviour and actually be respectful towards others.
There are people such as myself who simply don't give two shits about you or your faction. To insult the majority of us by mentioning that symbolism is a dead art around here, is a bad thing.
And that pushes in what I wanted to get at. You're extremely disrespectful to others as of late. I don't agree with the behaviour some have portrayed towards you, but not everyone has done so.
You should reconsider your behaviour and actually be respectful towards others.
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It's good to be reminded, now and then, that some things are constant.
Rascaldees
Banned Member
Rascaldees
Banned Member
I haven't forgotten. But if others will not make the effort then why will I? I won't. It's wasted effort.
I'm sure I'm not the only person that finds it more than a little suspicious that no one comments on articles until AFTER they're approved with all these rules suddenly coming out of the wood works that make it unapproved. That's the entire reason Jack is submitting this article for me. Wes said to do it.
If I come off as aggressive from this point onward then fine. I tried appeasing the crowd and the only thing I got out of it was so heavily modifying any creations to the point that they are no longer anything like their original concept. The Automata (Apparati) are a perfect example. They were supposed to be highly advanced machines. But to please the crowd they're now slugs with some fancy barely advanced tech.
I get adhering to rules. What I don't get is how often they seem to be applied to me at the last possible second rather than being brought up BEFORE the submissions are approved. If there are so many rules being broken with my submissions then surely someone has to realize it before then? Surely someone, many of whom are people that are online every day, would realize it ahead of time?
Because right now all evidence points to direct opposition. So I'll treat it as direct opposition until proven otherwise.
And for the record I tried making my peace with certain people. I was metaphorically slapped in the face for it. Because of that reaction there can't be peace.
I'm sure I'm not the only person that finds it more than a little suspicious that no one comments on articles until AFTER they're approved with all these rules suddenly coming out of the wood works that make it unapproved. That's the entire reason Jack is submitting this article for me. Wes said to do it.
If I come off as aggressive from this point onward then fine. I tried appeasing the crowd and the only thing I got out of it was so heavily modifying any creations to the point that they are no longer anything like their original concept. The Automata (Apparati) are a perfect example. They were supposed to be highly advanced machines. But to please the crowd they're now slugs with some fancy barely advanced tech.
I get adhering to rules. What I don't get is how often they seem to be applied to me at the last possible second rather than being brought up BEFORE the submissions are approved. If there are so many rules being broken with my submissions then surely someone has to realize it before then? Surely someone, many of whom are people that are online every day, would realize it ahead of time?
Because right now all evidence points to direct opposition. So I'll treat it as direct opposition until proven otherwise.
And for the record I tried making my peace with certain people. I was metaphorically slapped in the face for it. Because of that reaction there can't be peace.
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Charmaylarg Dufrain
🎖️ Game Master
please do not threaten community members or the community at large with disrespectful or toxic behavior just for giving their concerns in your articles. Keep the topic on track about the species and please don't lash out at others over it.
Rascaldees
Banned Member
If stating facts is toxic then I'll be wrong.
Jack Pine
Well-Known Member
Woah okay, maybe calm down there guys, let's just take a step back for a while and come back with cooler heads. Concerns have been made, now let's just wait for Wes. I don't want to have to call and in here to lock the thread because things escalated, so please relax for a bit everyone.
Since i'm on my computer and not posting on my phone any more just going to post this a bulletin and again state im not picking sides or anything like that just posting the concerns just reading the page. Hope this works better then my last two posts.
"Hessarian lifespans are still unknown. The longest lived Hessarian survived for almost ten thousand years before being killed in combat; a fate which takes almost every Hessarian."
1. I know previous articles and races have a life expedience maybe this should have something more firm. This article implies that that by effect they can almost live forever and one lived about ten thousand years that seems abit much.
2. I wish we can learn about there reproductive process since can almost leave the states if they have a very low birth rate. The reason why I bring this up is in reptilians some species in the real world can lay up to 30 eggs in one batchs while laying up to two 3 batchs. Also depending on the breed they only need 4 to 8 weeks to hatch. We also don't know when they reach physical adult hood, I know in the lore in the wiki for them it says when society they reach adult hood but when do they reach it sexually.
Only reason why I ask these questions and bring this up is this might help the whole over power idea some of us have from a 2 story biological tank. If its a low reproduction rate and therefor low number count ( 1 per 100 thousand as a random example) This might allow a rarity in the species and therefor limit the threat and give some balance.
Also to also remove any future issues the submitters may have or perceived issues they have from my previous posts in other threads or this one I'm going to refrain from future UCS lore, background, plots and other species background for the next foreseeable future. Wish the thread the best of luck and hope that some of this is answered or maybe also asked by Wes.
"Hessarian lifespans are still unknown. The longest lived Hessarian survived for almost ten thousand years before being killed in combat; a fate which takes almost every Hessarian."
1. I know previous articles and races have a life expedience maybe this should have something more firm. This article implies that that by effect they can almost live forever and one lived about ten thousand years that seems abit much.
2. I wish we can learn about there reproductive process since can almost leave the states if they have a very low birth rate. The reason why I bring this up is in reptilians some species in the real world can lay up to 30 eggs in one batchs while laying up to two 3 batchs. Also depending on the breed they only need 4 to 8 weeks to hatch. We also don't know when they reach physical adult hood, I know in the lore in the wiki for them it says when society they reach adult hood but when do they reach it sexually.
Only reason why I ask these questions and bring this up is this might help the whole over power idea some of us have from a 2 story biological tank. If its a low reproduction rate and therefor low number count ( 1 per 100 thousand as a random example) This might allow a rarity in the species and therefor limit the threat and give some balance.
Also to also remove any future issues the submitters may have or perceived issues they have from my previous posts in other threads or this one I'm going to refrain from future UCS lore, background, plots and other species background for the next foreseeable future. Wish the thread the best of luck and hope that some of this is answered or maybe also asked by Wes.
Rascaldees
Banned Member
Part of Hessarian culture that keeps them down is their inability to stop slaughtering one another in order to maintain peace. It's one of the key concepts behind the race; hence why I am hesitant to lower or even mention their birth rates. As towards their life spans, this is known as biological immortality. Diseases, gunfire and other 'unnatural' deaths will still kill them. It's a side effect of their extreme regenerative abilities which is another part of what makes them so tough.
Need to kill one? Bring some heavy ordinance or bring a squad. I'm not really in the business of making cannon fodder... anything really.
The main concern I keep seeing is how they stack up against power armor. Well, if this power armor is meant to take down tanks of the setting then it can easily take one of them down. Likewise, they can probably take down a Mindy. It's a matter of 'who hits first' and 'more accurately'. The Hessarians primarily love melee combat over ranged; meaning they'll keep trying to close distance regardless of mass casualties. They aren't a smart species. They rely on brute strength to get things done (the hammer) whereas a smarter technique not only results in less lives lost but also in less collateral damage (the scalpel).
Engage a Hessarian? Do it from a distance. Do it with high power weaponry that is abundant in this setting. Do it smartly and you'll be fine. Charge in like a rampaging baboon and you'll probably get swarmed and die.
Avoiding power creep and arms races are important objectives when judging submissions. If something overpowered gets approved, it doesn't exist in a void. Soon, other things in the setting will try to compensate and our technology levels across the board will drift. It's better to look to approve things that are on our tech level already, rather than things that ask us to elevate the rest of our tech to compete on even footing.
Being able to "...rip open even the strongest of armors..." with their bare hands coupled with the fact that they wear armor is concerning, @Jack Pine. Can you edit this feature of ripping open "the strongest of armors" into being quantifiable and lessened, in doing so? The "strongest" isn't quantifiable, because the constant for armors will change, so what is strongest this year might not be the strongest next year. Try to say what material is their max for ripping open, perhaps? Avoid power armor as the max, though, because power armor has shielding and to get past shielding implies a strength that is nonsensical for our setting. Also, try to make it less OP in quantifying it for us. Thank you.
Being able to "...rip open even the strongest of armors..." with their bare hands coupled with the fact that they wear armor is concerning, @Jack Pine. Can you edit this feature of ripping open "the strongest of armors" into being quantifiable and lessened, in doing so? The "strongest" isn't quantifiable, because the constant for armors will change, so what is strongest this year might not be the strongest next year. Try to say what material is their max for ripping open, perhaps? Avoid power armor as the max, though, because power armor has shielding and to get past shielding implies a strength that is nonsensical for our setting. Also, try to make it less OP in quantifying it for us. Thank you.
Okay so I'm just looking through this, and outside of any specific "nerf this" or "buff this" or whatever arguments... I think it would do away with a lot of confusion if the species page had DR3 notes on how tough/powerful these things are in SARP terms.
I suggest clarifying this with a footnote that says the DR they can be expected to naturally have. My species has a defensive DR because of their scales, and were easily approved with it because people knew exactly what I was thinking.
Get rid of the part about "four thousand PSI." While hard science is cool when it's accurate, real creatures with a bite force that large (some crocodiles and theoretically some sharks) cannot do this. So the science you're inserting is tenuously accurate at best; stick with prose descriptions of what they can do. The ability itself is a little wild, honestly, even with their remarkable physiology, so consider describing what they can do in terms of what they actually do — talk about being able to rend through flesh and bone and, if you absolutely must, specifically define an example of the metals they can bite through (seems like some kind of relatively thin sheet metal would work).
This whole paragraph is a string of contradictions. They aren't good without leaders... unless one of them (who aren't good without leaders) is in command... but they are rarely put in command...
So do they just not join the UCS? Then what's the point of making them as a playable species for your faction? I'd revise this and get rid of the "(usually another Hessarian)" and make them more generally amenable to authority no matter the source of that authority. They seem kind of like the Jem'Hadar, tbh. In any case, as Charmaylarge said, the attribute isn't a disadvantage at all.
Please give more than single-sentence entries, here. Talk about their cuisine or lack of such. Do they just eat raw meat or make actual dishes? Same kind of thing with their environment. Describe the type of presumably arid environments they evolved in and talk about how they react to environments outside of that. These two categories generally lack description. You were beefy enough in the Clothing header, but not in these two.
The wiki is an OOC information library and is generally omnipotent. You should describe their life cycle even if its unknown in-character.
Anyhow, there are some of those specific changes you're always asking people to give you. That said, while I know Wes gave his go-ahead and came up with the idea of someone else submitting it, +1 to the thought that the 3 month restriction exists so that we know you're going to be around long enough to support your addition to SARP rather than burn out quickly after all of this stuff is approved.
Plus, this species has already been put on an approval timer and thus shouldn't be re-submitted to circumvent that. It's completely inappropriate.
Because the rest of SARP generally respects the guidelines that have been agreed upon and doesn't demand exceptions despite the fact that tenure should come with the trust and privilege required to do something disallowed.
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