Soban
Convention Veteran
Where?
-
If you were supposed to get an email from the forum but didn't (e.g. to verify your account for registration), email Wes at [email protected] or talk to me on Discord for help. Sometimes the server hits our limit of emails we can send per hour.
-
Get in our Discord chat! Discord.gg/stararmy
OOC [OOC] - Senate of Yamatai Discussion
- Thread starter Doshii Jun
- Start date
The wiki is a sourcebook for this freeform roleplaying game.
The Star Army universe continues to grow and there's always a need for inspirational content that fuels stories and adventures. You can use this wiki to plan your RP, for keeping track of events and details, and to share the historical record of what happened. Currently wiki contains 13689 articles and 14480 media files (mostly images). Imagine how many printed RPG sourcebooks that would fill!
FrostJaeger
Banned Member
Apologies for being late in replying to this - had an assignment at work. Anyhoo, original message is below.
Never claimed they were vanity rewards, Yuuki. By reward - and apologies for not clarifying this - I mean that, well, someone who invests time and effort into something should get a modicum of say in determining that something’s direction and actions IC, so long as they aren’t anything drastic like what Asteria did before getting Thanos’d.
Also, why wouldn’t a single person’s passion project be a region, a suzerainty, or a subfaction? I can tell you right now that my passion project is the Elysian suzerainty.
Soban:
Your layers of accretions. And if I saw things as such a static thing, would I have drafted these words, for this bill, that are perhaps the most transformative thing Yamatai has ever seen? These are essentially all my words in this bill. Why would I have done something like this if it was as you (echoing nearly word for word something Ethereal said in the past) say?
Let me put it this way, Frost (who was even more adamant about things being left alone in the same conversation):
The MCS isn't the MCS because of anything Andrew did. Not anything I did. It's because a bunch of people saw value in it, did a bunch of stuff there that aligned, over years and years and years. It's Andrew Miyako Toshiro Yuuki Charaa Demibear Nakshatra Soresu RaWolfe Farzi Damaske Hyralt Sageshooter, etc., etc.
You have Elysia. It already is all those things and if you never came along it still would be because it has been, thanks to very much the same thing as I described above, so it isn't really germane to the point.
Your layers of accretions. And if I saw things as such a static thing, would I have drafted these words, for this bill, that are perhaps the most transformative thing Yamatai has ever seen? These are essentially all my words in this bill. Why would I have done something like this if it was as you (echoing nearly word for word something Ethereal said in the past) say?
Let me put it this way, Frost (who was even more adamant about things being left alone in the same conversation):
The MCS isn't the MCS because of anything Andrew did. Not anything I did. It's because a bunch of people saw value in it, did a bunch of stuff there that aligned, over years and years and years. It's Andrew Miyako Toshiro Yuuki Charaa Demibear Nakshatra Soresu RaWolfe Farzi Damaske Hyralt Sageshooter, etc., etc.
You have Elysia. It already is all those things and if you never came along it still would be because it has been, thanks to very much the same thing as I described above, so it isn't really germane to the point.
FrostJaeger
Banned Member
If you’re referring to the Discord conversation where I said that Ethereal’s stuff should be left alone, @Yuuki, I said that because for rather self-evident reasons I don’t think that people who had well-established OOC conflicts/issues/grudges/etc. with him should be touching his creations - which is something that has nothing to do with the current discussion.
As for Elysia, if I hadn’t come along, Zack would have very likely used it to his own ends, as evidenced by the 4th Elysian Empire - and there would have been no news posts, no Ascension mini-plot, no Elysian presence on Osman, and no ECS Panopteles - so please don’t claim that it would have remained unchanged, as it has always been, or however you worded it, because such a statement is in my opinion rather rude and put-downing of my efforts as Elysian FM.
As for Elysia, if I hadn’t come along, Zack would have very likely used it to his own ends, as evidenced by the 4th Elysian Empire - and there would have been no news posts, no Ascension mini-plot, no Elysian presence on Osman, and no ECS Panopteles - so please don’t claim that it would have remained unchanged, as it has always been, or however you worded it, because such a statement is in my opinion rather rude and put-downing of my efforts as Elysian FM.
Last edited:
Soban
Convention Veteran
There was most certainly a miscommunication there. Layers of accretions is not a statement of staticness, it's a statement of change and development over time. Accretion is the process by which a story describing "events" becomes layered by each telling with additional interpretive nuances until the changes are more plentiful than the original facts. This definition of Accretion isn't like assembling something static, but a dynamic conversation across time by people who are interacting with the same thing and changing it.
You all are welcome to challenge each others' ideas but don't go after each other as people. This isn't that kind of community. I'm asking everyone to avoid talking about each other and stick to the constructive discussion of the senate or RP, avoid digging up past issues, and to keep this thread on topic. Let's try to stay focused.
Welcome to the club! I decided the same after Proposal 121. Even the most simple legislation is a struggle.
Soban
Convention Veteran
Part of the reason it's hard is because there is PVP type resistance to any change. The other legislators aren't Mishhu we can just cut through with an Aether Katana. Their other players who need to be treated fairly in a way that genericBadguy42 doesn't have to. Making a law isn't a plotline where Wes has a predetermined outcome, it's something that he allows to let things pretty much fall as they may and if he hates it enough he'll just have Himiko overrule it.
Another reason it's hard is because by skipping the boring procedural bits, we also skip out on the fairness and clarity they bring. For example, we've all voted for or against the bill, but what about the modification? Aren't they also really meaningful? Shouldn't we be working out all of the changes before we vote on the thing as a whole? It's hard because we're doing a lot of stuff backwards.
Another reason it's hard is because by skipping the boring procedural bits, we also skip out on the fairness and clarity they bring. For example, we've all voted for or against the bill, but what about the modification? Aren't they also really meaningful? Shouldn't we be working out all of the changes before we vote on the thing as a whole? It's hard because we're doing a lot of stuff backwards.
A solution: Disestablish the Imperial Senate and revert to Proposal #1's standing provisions 
We would have a roll call after there are no more amendments. LIke Koukotsu will probably change to yes.
Yeah. This is generally how it works in real life. You take a bunch of informal votes and modify things before the final "roll call."
To expedite the process, I feel like the amendments in conflict should default to the version with the most seconds less objections. So if we were to amend right now and vote, it'd be a vote for (rough memory checklist):
- Basic bill modified by
- Tami's amendment (3 seconds)
- Taiie having an exclusion zone (2 seconds)
- Xiuluria gets added as a pre-existing suzerainty (4 seconds)
- Something about defining the population of what is considered a system (2 seconds)
It's not really the way seconding something is supposed to work (you only need 1 to call a question), but it's pretty efficient.
Amendments would typically be voted on to see if they are included. But I am losing track of everything to bother with that. Those making the amendments need to write their versions of changes. Roll for what to include and then roll call for the final vote unless we want to do more rounds of amendments. In the future, I think we are going to need to 1) Motion for an amendment and write out what is actually being amended, 2) Ask for a second, if it doesn't sit back down and if it does get a second then vote on the inclusion since they are going to be all "hostile" amendments unless the proposal actually has sponsors. Which in that case, those amendments would be automatic unless there is falling out between sponsors.
Last edited:
Right. But that's why I spoke about efficiency. By simply applying the amendments with the most seconds and those that are not in conflict, we will offload everything to another round of holistically voting on the bill rather than doing 6 rounds of voting on each amendment.
But hey it's just an idea.
But hey it's just an idea.
I rather have six rounds knowing exactly where each person wishes are known, than someone just remaining bitter because someone ignored a counter-amendment because theirs got more seconds so no one bothers to look at the counter. It could also be done in a slightly different way. Get all the amendments in one round then vote for one the ones that got seconded as a block. Why numbering them will be important and people actually writing the change, anyone can easily keep track of them.
HarperMadi
🎨 Media Gallery
Agreed. Shurista will vote yes on the bill anyway, they like it, and amendments are a little more than they were expecting, but it hasn't turned into a Christmas tree bill, nor has the intent changed. Well. Shretas likes it. He's stuck in a hospital not far away too old and tired to give a damn what his constituents think of him doing what he feels is best for their interests and the interests of the community. Though they'd probably agree with him.
