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OOC [OOC] - Senate of Yamatai Discussion

Yeah it's not about rules of order because we don't play out the parts where rules of order even apply.

And another thing is, Premiers have consistently overlooked appointing a Steward at all, there's even Hitomi begging Katsuko to hurry up and get in gear with it in a recent Senate thread.

The Steward's player is an important OOC appointment. They are essentially the OOC Manager of the Senate. We have been treating the Premier as such, and to me it seems that is a faulty conclusion. Just as the Steward can't be a Senator or the Premier, I don't think the player should be someone who is one, either. And, as they also RP an IC moderator whose job it is to strictly enforce those procedures and the rules of order on the floor, they also need to be the OOC manager to ensure Senate stuff is kept up with and moving and in place. This is a sorely essential position, and it is necessary a Yamatai player who is not otherwise involved with the Senate step up to it.
 
Now who is someone that equally "hates" everyone to properly do the role?
 
I know you’re just joking around but it shouldn’t be a non-Yamatai player just because “lol of course they’re objective!”

The Premier player is fine. Steward is meant to be non-invasive, and doesn’t even need a named character in the position. They exist so that Yuumi or Katsuko or Hanako doesn’t have narratively to sully their good name by telling the rude opposition party to shut up.
 
I think having a named NPC would help flesh out the Senate a bit further, and give our Senators someone to actually talk to. I also think that the Steward should be played by someone not invested whatsoever in Yamatai (club24 actually is a good example of such a person, regardless of Yuuki’s original intent) when the Premier isn’t one of Wes’ NPCs, as to not do such a thing would in my opinion allow for the Steward’s decisions to potentially be influenced by party biases.
 
I think it should be someone very invested in Yamatai, though
 
I think any person other than Wes is going to have some bias or at least make people uncomfortable when they have to make the tough calls. That and their opinion will be second-guessed and brought up to Wes enough to warrant it just being Wes.
 
Look, I made the Steward. They are a tool for the Senate’s GM (historically the Premier player) to be wielded by that GM. It’s basically an IC voice for moderation actions that only the Senate GM can take. They also have no real power; the Steward’s “admonitions” are by design not even recorded in the Senate record (which is a thing that doesn’t matter anyway) because it’s just a mouthpiece to keep scolding bad actors IC rather than OOC.

The Senate GM can delegate, of course, but please do not make the position out to be more than it really is. Consider what it is supposed to be before pushing for what it is not. Which, I think, is sage advice for interacting with anything in fiction.

FrostJaeger said:
the Steward should be played by someone not invested whatsoever in Yamatai
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There’s already too much of that in the Senate. Ame and Yuuki articulated the topic well while I was typing this reply.
 
raz said:
There’s already too much of that in the Senate. Ame and Yuuki articulated the topic well while I was typing this reply.
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Please stop putting down the efforts of others, @raz, because it’s extremely rude and tiresome. Just because someone disagrees with you as to how Yamatai should be run doesn’t mean that they aren’t invested in Yamatai - or are you actually going to try and claim that folks like @demibear, @Soban, and (to a lesser extent, admittedly) myself and HarperMadi aren’t invested in Yamatai?

Anyways.

As I was clocking in at work, I realized that what Ametheliana said here is in my opinion the best course of action to avoid any drama or bias - as Wes is the only person I trust in this community to be completely bias-free when it comes to deciding what’s best for Yamatai, as, well, he’s the one most invested in it due to it being his faction/community/setting/etc.
 
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I think the point was sort of lost here. As far as I can tell, the proposal was that there be a more regulated system for drafting and passing laws, and to have that system maybe be a bit more realistic.
 
Air Admiral said:
I think the point was sort of lost here. As far as I can tell, the proposal was that there be a more regulated system for drafting and passing laws, and to have that system maybe be a bit more realistic.
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Fair enough, Air Admiral, and my apologies for contributing to that derailment. Once I finish my weekly GM post for the ECS Panopteles, I’m going to start looking at Model UN rules to possibly adopt for a Yamatai Senate proposal. If anyone has suggestions on where to look, I’m all ears~!
 
I think the problem is that modifying something generally requires a vote of some sort on the modification. Based on the number of resolutions currently up there, there is going to be like a page or two of just voting. Each round of which has to be open long enough for people to vote on it. I think the most important step is getting organized and making sure that we go over everything. Which is the Premier's role.

There is a reason that doing things formally can seem very stifling. Because it's a mess if it's not done formally. I don't like procedural formality, but it's needed. Like Yuuki said, "we don't play out the parts where rules of order even apply." because their boring. However, for the senate to have effective debate and motions and resolutions, we need to. If all of us were on the exact same page about what needed to be done, we might be able to skip them. However we aren't and so we need the formality.

I can't unsee this now, so I'm sharing my horrible revelation with you. (Those smarter than me probably already realized this.) The Senate is one of the few places on SARP where we have PVP. Because of that, we need combat rules (or in this case, procedural rules) so that's its fair and doesn't dissolve into chaos.
 
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Ok, so I've been thinking about it, and I think we should adopt a quick and dirty procedure for this Senate proposal and see how we like it.

The procedure is simple. Debate and Vote. Debate is at least three days and at least one day from the most recent debate post. During debates we can propose child motions which upon being seconded begin a new debate on the motion. Once that timeframe has passed, then we move to voting with the same time frames and no new amendments during voting. A post recognizing the outcome of a vote is considered a debate post for it's parent.

We currently have a somewhat tangled situation, which I disentangle this way

  • Proposal
    • Motion to Amend by adding Xiuluria as Suzeraintys
    • wording to mark systems and worlds as being any habitable place whether megastructure or naturally formed planet (Not yet seconded)
    • Extend Imperial Demesne
      • demibear's modification
      • raz's counter proposal
The extent and meaning of the Imperial Demesne is going to be the subject of quite a bit of debate. So we should be tackling that at this time. We can work on the other two once the extent and meaning of the Imperial Demesne. I think the Premier needs to specify where exactly we are and how we are modifying things to clear it up so a debate can begin. Wes, if you feel that it's too much, I'm happy to name a Steward NPC and do it for the current proposal.
 
Soban said:
The extent and meaning of the Imperial Demesne is going to be the subject of quite a bit of debate. So we should be tackling that at this time.
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As Yuuki has suggested, the goal of the Senate is to play act advice for Wes' faction. I remember in a community meeting several months ago that on this exact topic of new suzerains Wes said that it did not make sense to him and he directly told you such. While the basic text of Proposal 123 states the Empress ultimately approves and can dissolve any suzerain, the goal should be to make it as airtight as possible that new suzerains are difficult to create because that's the faction's OOC direction.

There doesn't need to be a big debate where we vote and counter vote on minutiae. It's not actually PvP.
 
In the scope of 117, Imperial Demesne was "Subject immediately and only to Imperial governance through local-tier apparatus, with no separate system or regional level administrative government.
 
Since there is a lack of IC appointed voices from the area I manage.

@Soresu plays our Senator for Jiyuu but has yet to post. I need to take a minute though to say as the Manager of the Motoyoshi Colonial Sector that their becoming a Suzerainty would be in absolute contradiction to all the Canon RP that has occurred in the region since YE 41. They do have regional governments like all planets in the Empire, and even the Regional one where those governments collaborate, but its always been under the premise of them truly being part of the Empire. It is kind of in contradiction of all the RP there to make them into a Suzerainty now. There is a very strong "Never Again" voice in the MCS and even though this would not be like independence again it would be seen as too close for comfort to some.
 
wasn't that removed?
 
Andrew said:
They do have regional governments like all planets in the Empire, and even the Regional one where those governments collaborate, but its always been under the premise of them truly being part of the Empire. It is kind of in contradiction of all the RP there to make them into a Suzerainty now. There is a very strong "Never Again" voice in the MCS and even though this would not be like independence again it would be seen as too close for comfort to some.
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Honestly, part of why Yusuke didn't include the MCS in the suggested changes to Imperial Demesne is because of how you've roleplayed the aftermath of the UOC. They're loyal, but do have a distinct subcultural history. And if anyone could make a trusted new suzerain it'd be the modern MCS. I also wanted Yusuke's proposed change to be entirely reasonable and not simply include the entire Star Map.

If you would like it included I can edit my suggestion, or one of the MCS senators can make their own.

Maybe, if the intersection of IC and OOC is largely on the same page for Yamataian players, there shouldn't be a legal framework at all for new suzerains.
 
I honestly believe the MCS will wish to stay part of the Imperial Demesne. It is what makes sense for their RP. As much as Yuuki and I may make jokes sometimes about past things and what could happen. I just don't see it going any other way.
 
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